@Timcast Our founder would be happy to have a public debate with you about why you think the company is absolute shit and the global issue of single-use plastic bottles. Or is this more of a road rage kinda thing just yelling out the window of your car as you drive away?

Hey @Timcast. Mike again. I have a counter for you. You unfairly started this whole thing calling us a "garbage company" and "absolute shit" and even a "bad company" to millions of people. And largely because of your pro skater friend being bummed we couldn't keep paying him. But we had a good debate, you realized you were wrong about a few things, and we ended with you saying that you actually like our brand. There's no way you can look me in the eye and still say we're a shit company. We're doing more good than many others. We're helping people make healthier beverage choices (using LD to cut back on alcohol and sugary drinks) and for giving a much better alternative to unrecyclable plastic bottles. I think it's fair to ask for a public apology from you. If you post a video apology to my hardworking staff at Liquid Death for being a bit of an unnecessary jerk (it can happen to the best of us), Liquid Death will agree to pay $1M to @5gyres if they will accept an extended payment plan📈♻️

Hey Tim. Let's talk math. We talked at length about beverage business realities and how LD is still not yet a profitable company. And we definitely were not 4 years ago. So when the verbiage says "10% of profits" that could mean 10% of $0 which is $0. Which is not true. I simply forgot on the spot and heard you say "10% of sales" which you did say, which was never true. We have documented donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year even when we were small and unprofitable. That is why the copy was changed to be "portion of the proceeds is donated" to be more clear that we actually donate money. Where saying 10% of profits doesn't actually convey real donations if a company isn't profitable.

There's only one asshole here Tim. You decided to take public shit on a company you knew little about in an industry you knew little about. I was even willing to come on your show and talk it out. You could have done the right thing and been a man and admitted you were wrong, and in return I would have done the right thing and given $1M to charity. But your ego and insecurity is too big for that. And now that you are threatening legal action like a total coward, the conversation is over and you can speak to our attorneys moving forward. It's been fun Tim.

@Timcast Hey @grok isn't it true that glass water bottles use several times more plastic than an aluminum can (printed can not shrink label can)?

@Timcast We can keep going as long as you can Tim. We're just curious to see how much time, energy, and air time a serious news journalist will keep giving to a canned beverage company because he's angry they ended their sponsorship of his skateboarder friend Richie.

@ThePoxBox @Timcast Great. Then he should absolutely agree to a public discussion and make the LD founder look like an idiot in front of millions. Social media text arguments are for children.

Liquid Death has at all times truthfully represented its charitable commitments. The company has donated 10% of profits, as expressly stated on brand materials during that time. $0 is false. Detailed financial records substantiating these donations are maintained and can be produced if required in a legal proceeding or regulatory inquiry. It appears there has been a misunderstanding regarding the rationale for the change in language. The purpose of the clarification was to explain that the original phrase “10% of profits” could be misinterpreted by consumers—particularly in reference to an emerging or controversial company—as implying that no donations would occur in the absence of profitability. Accordingly, the language was amended to use the word "proceeds" to accurately convey that donations are being made regardless of the company’s profit status.

This is true and we found a revolutionary use for it: t.co/zcUv6suTq2

@grok @Timcast @grok so it's true that glass bottles often contain 10X more plastic than an aluminum can? And is it true that aluminum cans are infinitely recyclable and have higher recycling rates than glass bottles?

@RealMikeGivens @Timcast Little girls complain on social media. Men have face to face discussions.

Hey Tim. Mike the LD founder here. Looking forward to our chat tomorrow. Pool Water is actually pretty funny. You should definitely raise some capital and make it. But just like me in the early days of starting LD, your business math is off here by quite a bit. You are selling 24 glass bottles of water for $20. The estimated weight of 24 12-oz glass bottles is about 35 lbs. On the low end (not cross country), shipping a 35 lb case to the customer from your warehouse will cost about $30 per case. Also, the cost to ship pallets of water from the bottler to your warehouse will cost you about $6 per case. And the warehouse will charge you minimum of $2 pick-and-pack fee per case shipped out. And the cost of shipping box and packing material will run you another $1-2 per case. So if you wanted to actually make $0.08 profit per bottle (which is not enough to run an actual company with employees), you would have to sell 24-packs of Pool Water for about $60 each to the customer to cover all your hard costs (which are mostly in shipping and freight of a 35 pound product). However, if you wanted to make a real beverage company and a low end profit margin of about 30% (many are over 40%, Monster energy makes 54%), you'd have to sell Pool Water for about $82.99 per 24-pack.

😂

@ThePoxBox @Timcast By "ad hominem" do you mean "social media"?

Hi Tim. It's Mike the LD founder. Again, looking forward to getting into the details with you tomorrow. I watched your interview with @billmaher on Club Random and respect that you also know how information (especially in media and social) can be spun and manipulated and regurgitated to become misinformation. As a beverage company, Liquid Death has always been about Death to Plastic Bottles. And largely because of the plastic pollution problem. It's why since inception we've donated a portion of proceeds to non-profits like @5gyres and even @thirstproject We've never been against all plastic. There is essential plastic in medical devices, cars, technology etc. But plastic beverage bottles are completely unnecessary and shitty on many levels: 1. They are not actually recyclable. When you put your plastic bottle in the blue recycling bin it goes to recycling facility and then they send it to a landfill. Why? Because plastic has never been economically viable to recycle. The cost to break it down vs what you can sell ground up plastic for is a loss. For decades, US facilities put plastic trash on a giant ships to China they could mark as "recycled" not knowing where it actually went. Then years ago China stopped accepting US plastic trash. That caused a real problem for recyclers and plastic trash as they now just had to ship the most of the plastic trash to landfills. 2. More recently people have been discovering the issue of microplastics. This is a very complicated issue. Microscopic plastic nano-particles can flake off of plastic into liquid and even air. Even if you bottle Pool Water in glass bottles, that water is touching plastic throughout the bottling facility through plastic nozzle heads, tubing, storage containers etc. There is still some risk. And PET plastic bottles are the worst offenders for microplastics because they are loose plastic and easily crinkle and bend and more subject to heat/sun. Which causes way more particle flaking. There is no way to completely avoid the risks of plastic in the modern commercial world. But you can severely lower your risks. So why are aluminum cans a much better alternative to plastic bottles when it comes to these 2 issues? Even though all beverage cans have ultra thin microscopic polymer coatings on the inside (20X thinner than a sheet of paper), because the coating is bonded to the metal and so thin, several studies have shown there is often ZERO detectable particle release under normal conditions. And even when they did find very tiny amounts it wasn't from the can but from the environment. Some sources estimate plastic bottles have up to 1000X higher microplastic risk than aluminum cans. And then in terms of recyclability and sustainability, there is no comparison to cans. Aluminum has by far the highest recycling rates because can be melted down and turned into new cans over and over again infinitely. And recycling facilities actually make money recycling metal. Most do not make money recycling plastic or glass. Think about the resale value of ground up plastic or ground up glass (sand), vs bricks of metal. Most glass that is claimed as "recycled" is actually downcycled into construction dust and landfill cover. Very few become new glass bottles. Are cans perfect? No. Is there any perfect material? No. Is glass better than cans? Marginally in some areas, definitely not in others. Are both cans and glass exponentially better than plastic bottles: yes. I think this points to a bigger problem with society today: everyone is either all or nothing. Black or white. No gray. If you're not 100%, you're 0%. Political parties aren't even allowed to talk to the other side. You are either 100% left or 100% right. Being 80% good or aligned is not enough. We live in the "Age of Outrage" as the great @billmaher coined. We're not going to solve all the worlds plastic problems with a beverage company. But we're at least moving in a better direction.